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moving wort

PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:59 pm
by Imakewort
looking for some input on transferring wort from the bk to a conical with distances of 25+ feet, to minimize loss you would put the pump as close as possible to the conical, looking at using one of these pumps but not from this dealer
http://www.tescopumps.com/servlet/the-9/march/Detail

PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:00 am
by yeastmeister
I believe as with all magnetic drive pumps, that one is non-self-priming. Unless your planning on feeding gravity, and leaving the hose on the ground (something I don't recommend, although I do it myself), then putting the pump on the hose end is a problem. I really don't see the problem with wort loss. If your using 1/2" hose, 25 feet of it only contains 32 ounces of liquid. If you move up to 1" hose, your looking for something real close to a gallon.

I do this all the time. I move wort from my kettle, through the therminator, through the oxygenation/yeast cross, directly into my conical. Something like 20+ feet. I use 1/2" hose, and at the batch sizes I brew, I'm not really concerned with losing a quart of liquid. I use the same pump on my brew stand to pump to the conical, that I used to circulate the wort. Its already sanitized by having boiling wort flowing through it.

If your planning on using it on your current system, I think thats much too large a pump. 18 gallons per minute? Your gonna need one hell of a big heat exchanger to chill wort that fast. Something along the lines of what Anheuser-Busch uses for their big batches. A standard march pump should be just fine for anything close to a couple of barrels in size. It simply comes down to the fact that you can't move wort any faster than you can chill it.

Of course, this is assuming a plate chiller, Immersion chillers get prohibitively large and expensive when your trying to chill large volumes.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:32 am
by Imakewort
i am thinking of up grading my system when i get back, I want to be able to brew 10 to 20 gallon batches using Blichmann pots. I plan on keeping my current plumbing and same basic design. I still plan on using a pump to move the hot wort thru my chiller and giving positive pressure to the pump next to my conical.
After a lot research i plan on dropping my adjustable sparge system inside my mash tun and the auto sparge part and going to the Blichmann auto sparge system, it is a lot more reliable and easier to use. And i can use it for recirculating my wort while mashing as it is fully adjustable and will not clog if the stray piece of grain gets past.
I also plan on getting rid of my chest freezers and going to glycol chilled conicals. This means i need to be able to move wort from my back patio to my middle room. That is the main reason for another pump because of the distance involved.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:14 pm
by aleguy
Personally, I think the March 809 HS pump will do what you want, but do as you like. You can put casters on your conicals and wheel them into the middle room too. Then you would only have to have the conicals inside the door so you wouldn't have to try to muscle them over the threshold. Though you might have a bit of trouble with the carpet in that room. A piece of 3/4" plywood with one end chamfered might make that an easier go though.
Some QDs and ball valves on the conicals make them moveable without spilling glycol all over.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:47 pm
by redtail28
Blichman pot and kettles are pretty to look at but they sure are thin. Just saying

PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:51 pm
by Imakewort
About moving full conicals I am not sure i want to do that, any way i plan on redoing my floors with ceramic tile so any carpet problems will disappear, And I am looking at a small commercial glycol chiller reservoir and might have to plumb it outside that room,
I also need the other pump to not only help fill the conicals but run my CIP for the the conicals. So I plan on putting it on a small wagon.
I need to come up with in line aeration system using filtered air off a small compressor as i like it more than using oxygen, a lot of breweries use filtered air for a lot of reasons that would be for another thread.
The Blichmanns are thinner than my keggles and the main down side i see is they will not hold heat as well, but I have a rims system so that should not be a problem and it might make my temps more stable no more heat spikes when the burner turns off. Also need to find a real good welder to add a side port to the pots to match my current systems plumbing.

PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:28 am
by redtail28
Wow! Maybe if you contact Blichmann they
can add the side port for you. But it
seems to me what you really need is a
cold room out side near your system.
That way you don't have to move it so
far.

A small room with insulation and a
A/C unit. That to me would give you the
extra room for conicals. With the add
room to store beer for years in a controlled
environment.

PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:49 am
by yeastmeister
Why bother with welding? All of the Blichmann stuff is weldless fittings. Unless your gonna get everything welded, I don't see why you don't just go with weldless.

PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:16 pm
by Imakewort
Why bother with welding? All of the Blichmann stuff is weldless fittings. Unless your gonna get everything welded, I don't see why you don't just go with weldless


your right it is a lot cheaper and easier, any one know who the manufacture of weld-less fittings is

PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 2:50 pm
by Mob_Barley
Here is where I got mine:

http://weldlessfittings.com/#

PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 3:23 pm
by yeastmeister
I should also note, that I have always dreamed about the Blichmann boilermaker pots. But upon looking at them in person, I realize that they really aren't anything better than other kettles. While they do seem to have the best false bottom now that I have seen it in action, and their valves and fittings are top notch, I'm disappointed by the kettle itself. Its 18 gauge all around, sides and bottom. I guess what I'm not happy with, is I was expecting a thick/sandwiched bottom that would help dissipate heat. If your looking at a 30 or 55 gallon kettle, then I haven't seen any alternatives out there, but if your looking at 25 gallons or less, I love my megapot from morebeer, its a beast that looks like I could run over it with a truck without denting it, and the bottom if 5 mm thick sandwiched.

PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:27 pm
by Imakewort
i found that all the weldless products are made by zymico, but i can not find there web sight from here, i would like to see what the manufacture sells for instead of going thru another middle man

PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 6:46 am
by yeastmeister
I still am scratching my head on your indications that you still plan on pumping wort through the therminator with one pump, and using that to provide head pressure to the pump near your conical. How is that going to help? Once the initial impeller pump runs dry, its not going to provide any head pressure. Unless your going downhill the entire way to your conical, thats still going to leave lots of wort in the lines.

If your truly interested in doing this, I'd suggest something like this.
Image
http://www.lgpc.com/Product/ItemDetail.aspx?ProductID=1408

It self priming, and will push air so you can completely evacuate the hose. Get an adjustable speed motor, and you can throttle it back as slow or fast as you want. It will push any head length you care to give it as long as your hose can contain it.

PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:55 pm
by Imakewort
I am not sure how i want to do it it yet. Just looking at options to see what is the best way to move the chilled wort to the conicals with the minimum loss. I would like to know how breweries do it as there bk usually are pretty far from there conicals and they want minimum loss, I do not think i want to push it with air to much of a infection risk.