brewstand burners

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brewstand burners

Postby aleguy » Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:15 pm

I have been looking at options for building a 3-burner brewstand. My realistic choices seem be between the Bayou Classic Banjo burners (210,000 BTU for $40 each) and the 116,000 BTU jet burners ($100 each).
While I would like to keep costs down, durability and user friendliness are more important to me since the stand will be in use long after I've forgotten about the money (3 or 4 beers later).
Most of the DYS members use jetted burners, though Igor recently built a new stand using banjos. I've heard that jetted burners will freeze up a propane tank, though I don't know why banjos wouldn't do the same.
Does anyone know how I might compare the two styles in terms of durability and user friendliness? How big a propane tank do I need to avoid freeze-ups without having to put the tank in a water bath? Are there other propane burner options I'm not aware of? How hard is it to fit a pilot to a banjo?
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Postby yeastmeister » Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:35 pm

Freezing up a tank has nothing to do with the burner, it has to do with the BTU output. More BTU's require gas to come out of the tank faster, no matter which burner it is. Since the burners are using gas, and not liquid propane, its the evaporation from liquid to gas that makes the tank freeze. Its not a problem most of the time, I've only had the issues on mine when the outside temp is below 60F, and even then, just put the tank in a bucket of water, and change it out a couple of times. The water provides more mass for the cold to dissipate through.
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Postby aleguy » Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:12 pm

I'm aware of that. I just wondered how large a tank I would need to avoid the problem. I also thought the difference between High-pressure and Low-pressure might make a difference in how fast the propane was used to provide the same or similar BTUs (A question of efficiency of use.) The question was only to help me balance the convenience of getting tanks filled versus the convenience of not worrying about freeze-up. BTW, have you had three burners going at the same time? Or is you experience limited to two? Seems to me three burners would freeze up at a much higher temperature than two. I might have to use a bru-heat in the water bucket at 90 degrees?
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Postby Imakewort » Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:07 pm

I use a 14 inch banjo burner that are a little smaller than than the diameter of the bottom of my keggle with a standard propane tank, and can run all 3 burners at full output with no problems, though I do use a high pressure adjustable regulator, my burners can run from barely on to blow the pot off the stove with zero smoking or problems.
I plan on brewing starting March-4 thru the 6Th let me know if you want to see a true brutus 10++ in action.
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Postby yeastmeister » Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:09 pm

IGOR wrote:.....with a standard propane tank, and can run all 3 burners at full output with no problems.....


I dare you to try that tomorrow morning when the temps are in the 30's. Bet you can't get "full" output on 3 for more than 5 minutes....if you can get full output at all.

Its a little thing called vaporization rate.

A full 20 pound propane cylinder can produce approximately....
90,000 BTU at 70F
80,000 BTU at 60F
65,000 BTU at 40F
50,000 BTU at 20F
35,000 BTU at 0F

Thats the temp of the propane, so by tomorrow morning, if the outside temps have been at 35F for most of the night, chances are so is the propane in your tank. At that temp, your only going to be able to pull somewhere around 60,000 BTU out of it (assuming its a full tank, it gets worse the emptier the tank gets).

While your burners claim to be able to put out 210K BTU, no way thats going to happen with a 20 lb tank at anything less than 90F outside.

Remember, any time your seeing frost on your tank, its a sure sign that its already below 32F.

If your asking how big a propane tank before you don't need to worry at any temp, then the answer is 100lb tank.

Luckily, our winters are short, so this isn't a problem most of the time.


Check here for more propane information:

http://www.propane.ca/Resources/propane.asp

http://www.flameengineering.com/Propane_Info.html

http://www.marksrv.com/lpfacts.htm

Other than that, it depends on what you want, eye candy, or just plain works. Admittedly, the jet burners are eye candy. BTU's are BTU's, both types heat liquid just fine. Your gonna run just about all of them at only 25% capacity at any time anyway. More than that, and you will scorch the wort/grain. You can crank your HLT if you feel strongly about bringing it up quickly.
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Postby Imakewort » Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:43 pm

I have only run all 3 burners at full throttle once for a test of the system, normally I only run the HLT at a level to raise then maintain the temp and for the mash tun since I have such a large clean burner I only need to run it at barely on to maintain temps then a little higher to go to mash out and then back to a very small flame to hold at temp. For the boil Kettle I turn it on when I reach 3/4 pre boil volume and then only enough to raise the temp up to help cut time till at boil and then only to maintain boil rate at 10%. the burners for the HLT and MT are all controlled by the love controllers so they are usually not on at the same time. I went with these burners not for there full throttle capability but on how well they operate at a low maintain flame and there size which evenly distributes the heat over the whole bottom of the kegs which I use for all 3 kettles.
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Postby thebuddrik » Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:27 am

You guys suck with all of your multi burner brew stands!! :evil:

One day!! One day!!!


Out of curiosity, has anyone ever used a large home propane tank. I bet that if you freeze one of those up you are doing some major brewing!!! :lol:
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Postby redtail28 » Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:03 am

Thses are the burners that i have on
my stand 55.00 btu they work great.
Image more beer has them for 30 percent off right now.
I got my at academy for 12.00 dollars and pick up the second one
At an Ace hardware for 7.00 dollars. You will rarely
Have all 3 burners going at once unless for doing
Double batches.
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Postby aleguy » Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:52 am

[quote="redtail28"]Thses are the burners that i have on
my stand 55.00 btu they work great.
Image
I'm pretty sure that's the same burner I have in my crawfish burner now. It was fine for five-gallon batches, but it takes an hour and three-quarters to bring 14 gallons of wort to the boil. That's why I'm looking to upgrade. My last brew day took ten hours with my current setup. Of course it doesn't help that my mash tun is too small and I had to sparge eight times (2 1/2 hours) to get my boil volume.
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Postby aleguy » Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:55 am

budrockdiesel wrote:You guys suck with all of your multi burner brew stands!! :evil:

One day!! One day!!!


Out of curiosity, has anyone ever used a large home propane tank. I bet that if you freeze one of those up you are doing some major brewing!!! :lol:


I'm going to try to put together a three burner stand myself, that's why I posted my burner questions. As far as freezing up a home tank, I think you would need to move up to brewing 7-barrel batches to do that.
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Postby aleguy » Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:49 am

Okay, so I'll never use a full 200,000 BTUs. I'm still in a quandary about what size burners I need. My 55,000 BTU burner is completely inadequate. At full on, it takes an hour and forty five minutes to bring my full wort volume to a boil. I'd like to reduce that time considerably. So I basically have two questions. What is the optimal BTU rating for burners doing a 12-gallon batch? and Could I run My burners full on without scorching the wort if I lowered them or put in some sort of flame shield between the pot and the burner? Would that just lower my actual heat transfer and waste propane?
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Postby redtail28 » Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:16 pm

you posted that you found the large Bandjo burners for
40 dollars is that local or online? :?:
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Postby yeastmeister » Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:04 pm

Hmmm...strange. The ones I am using on my external and internal burners are approximately 60,000 BTU burners. They bring my kegs up to boiling in less than 30 minutes if I crank them, and I can bring my 26 gallon keg up to boiling in an additional 30 minutes up from the 168F that gets transferred into it with them.

Not sure how the measurements on burners go. I'm just reading the numbers posted on websites, but even morebeer claims that 55,000 BTU is adequate for 20 gallons. Perhaps something else is awry? Constricted airflow? Bad regulator? Just a few thoughts....
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Postby aleguy » Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:15 am

Honestly, with my tiny little mash tun, it takes about two and a half hour to sparge out my full boil volume, so the wort is only slightly above ambient by the time it gets on the burner. I use a needle valve rather than the regulator to adjust the flame, so maybe I need to crank the regulator up a little. The burner has always been fine for five gallon batches, but I'm using about three times as much propane now, and it takes everything a lot longer to come to temp.
A lot of those problems will be solved by getting three burners to work with so I can get a keg to convert to a mash tun (which will give me about two more gallons of capacity) and keep everything warm. But I still want to get more powerful burners. The big 200,000 BTU banjos from Northern Brewer are looking pretty good right now. Cheap and powerful. Shipping is the only problem, but if I get a couple of March pumps too . . .
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Postby aleguy » Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:57 pm

I found these on amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/Multi-Jet-Propane ... 62&sr=1-47

What I don't know is their BTU rating. They look like they're the same as the ones on morebeer that are rated 103,000 BTU.

http://morebeer.com/view_product/17252/ ... Us_Propane
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